Mark Broadbent
Recently a friend emailed a link to the video below…
The video resonated with a number of my friends, who all felt it was challenging.
I jumped into the discussion with the following email…
(I have just copied and pasted my email – so there will be errors)
Ok…
Only just watched the video now. Here is my RANT!!!
1. HE IS CLEARLY TALKING ABOUT WHO IS SAVED AND WHO IS NOT
He makes it abundantly clear that for him, the topic of the speech is salvation. He is not just talking about discipleship.
2. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT WE TEND TO MINIMIZE SIN
We all do this. Can any of us (including the guy on this video) claim to hate sin as much as God does? Far out. My heart is still sinful. The sinful nature in me craves sin. The Holy Spirit in me hates sin. I am in conflict with myself (Romans 7) and there is an inner war going on between my sinful nature and the Spirit (Galatians 5)
3. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THE KIND OF FAITH THAT SAVES PRODUCES FRUIT
You cannot have the Spirit of God come into your life and stay the same. You cannot be set free from guilt and shame and be apathetic about it. Everything will change. Of course there will be fruit. When the gospel is planted in someone’s life, it can’t help but flow out of us. We can’t contain it.
4. I AGREE THAT THERE ARE SOME SINS THAT HAVE BECOME ACCEPTABLE IN THE CHURCH
e.g. Watching movies we shouldn’t watch. I agree with him on this. And I confess that I do not have the hatred for some of this that I should.
But I also think there are others which are far more important…
> Unforgiveness towards others – Jesus says that if you can’t forgive others – don’t even come to worship.
> Greed – the bible says that the love of money is the fruit of all kinds of evil.
My point is, I think he has an agenda. Why not confront the big issues such as greed and unforgiveness which is so prominant in the church? Why confront swearing? My gut feeling is that he doesn’t order the sins the way the bible does.
Not all sin is equal. Ezekiel is clear on this. And I think his priority of sin is out of whack.
5. MY GUT FEELING IS THAT HE BELIEVES A GOSPEL OF WORKS AND NOT GRACE.
He is just like the pharisee in the story of the pharisee and the tax collector. To me he is saying… ‘I don’t watch these movies. I hate sin more than you do. I follow Jesus better than you do.’
He is appealing to stuff that he is doing.
I don’t see Christ getting the glory. I see him getting the glory.
I don’t hear a heart of gratefulness.
I hear a heart of pride.
I could be wrong.
But man – could anyone of us sit under this and be completely sure that we ‘LOVE GOD AND HATE SIN’ enough to be acceptable to God?
6. HIS USE OF THE JEREMIAH PASSAGE IS TOTALLY UNCHRISTIAN
It is possible to be Biblical and not Christian.
I could spend ages talking about this, but I don’t have the capacity to do it over email.
7. MY CONCLUSION…
If any of you think you could sit under his test and be saved…ALL THE BEST.
I myself have decided to bet the farm on what Jesus has done on my behalf.
Mark
(Spiritually Bankrupt, Morally Sick and thoroughly disappointed with himself. Yet forgiven, declared righteous, and totally overwhelmed with his grace).
Ps. On a side note… HERE IS A QUOTE FROM VIDEO… “If you do not mind being seen in places which were built to be places of sin…then you hate him”. Are you serious??? Has he read the gospels? Jesus hung out with Tax Collectors and Prostitutes? This guy is nothing more than a Pharisee.
This has got to be one of the biggest screw ups of the gospel I have heard.
Would love to hear your thoughts…
Interesting vid, A few thoughts that I have:
He definitely sounds sincere, it sounds as though he just wishes to send an alarming wake up call to those who are in church but not saved. It seems that the videos purpose was to really shake people out of their comfort zone and cause them to examine themselves.
However, I do think he goes to far, focusing to much on our works than God’s grace; e.g. He didn’t talk about Jesus’ sacrifice in such a way that it was God’s supreme display of love to the world, but rather only in guilt-trip (although perhaps a valid guilt-trip) kind of way about us abusing grace.
He goes to far on the works, and there is no real gospel in this, the whole point of the gospel is that it’s FOR SINNERS, not for people who have it all together.
The thing that makes it confusing for me is a strange mix of discipleship and salvation.
While I think the guy’s rant is over the top in terms of intensity and overemphasis on the depravity of humankind (the clip above cuts out at 8:15 – I would hope that the bit we don’t see here brings the answer to this problem of depravity). I also think that saying he is preaching works not grace is actually incorrect.
The guy’s emphasis is on “fruit” and he actually denies a works doctrine. Fruit by its nature is produced because of what is in the DNA of the tree. This guy is saying (albeit in a very confronting and possibly over-the-top way) no more than if someone is genuinely saved then Christ is in their DNA and therefore they will produce Christlike fruit. His emphasis is on the need for their to have been a change of DNA, from a sin DNA to a Christ DNA and this is the heart of the gospel – the great excahnge, Christ takes our sin and gives us His righteousness! He actually says that doing good deeds and going to church etc… will not save you. That salvation is only available through true repentance and belief in Christ!
The big question that this video raises is “Can you claim Christ as your saviour and then deliberately, willingly and lovingly embrace a lifestyle that is completely at odds with the life of Christ?” I think the Scriptures are clear that you cannot (Rom 12:9; 1 Jn 1:5-6, 2:15-16; 1 Pet 2:16). Yes I acknowledge that no one gets saved and starts living perfectly straight away, and that we all struggle with sin, but if Christ is really at work in someone they will be being transformed into His likeness and this should be visible because of the fruit that is being produced. If someone continually and willingly plunges into sin, sure we have to question whether they have trully come to an understanding of the gospel.
I think it is a shame that we don’t see the end of the video in this clip, to see if he explains God’s offer of grace as passionately as he proclaims the reality of sin. But as ministers we need to care for God’s sheep and there is no way God would want me to let someone lull themselves into a false sense of security while their life is lived in darkness and in love with the world and doesn’t give any indication of spiritual life.
Mark, i think you’ve got one point majorly wrong in your analysis, and it’s #1. He is NOT talking about who is saved and who is not – he makes it very clear that he is talking to people who claim the name of Christ, and to take seriously what He has done on our behalf. That set the context of the message, and i think by getting that part wrong, you’ve misheard a lot of what he has to say.
I don’t think picking on movies and swearing was meant to be exhaustive. If anything, it was just the tip of the iceberg, and he was saying that there is a huge problem of sin in the church. I think he is fundamentally right when he says that for many people, pointing out sin has become a bigger sin than committing sin.
However, i do think you’re right about the fact that he believes in a Gospel of works, even if inadvertently. He lost the plot in the part where he said that what you don’t do can send you to hell.
Overall, though, i think we need to see this video for what it is: a slightly misdirected, but passionate plea for Christ’s people to live like Christ.
Hi Paul
I may very well have misunderstood.
To me, he seems to be banging on a lot about who is going to go to heaven or hell, so I can’t see how he is not talking about salvation.
I am happy to be corrected though.
On another note…
I am extremely concerned by your two statements…
1) “i do think you’re right about the fact that he believes in a Gospel of works”
2) “i think we need to see this video for what it is: a slightly misdirected, but passionate plea for Christ’s people to live like Christ”.
Here is my concern…
The Apostle Paul said ‘even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach a gospel different to the one we first preached to you, let him be eternally condemned’.
I just can’t see for the life of me how on one hand, you agree that he is preaching a different gospel (a gospel of works), and on the other you’re saying that he is just slightly misdirected.
If people are preaching a false gospel, we must do whatever we have to do to stop them from preaching. They are not just ‘slightly misdirected’. But they are in fact preaching a gospel that will send people to hell.
I’m not trying to sound harsh. I just think we must be so so so clear and strong on the gospel.
Mark
Referring to my post above… the guy is NOT preaching a gospel of works… he is simply saying, (albeit very bluntly and perhaps too intensely), that if you are truly saved that your life will produce fruits in keeping with repentance… that Christ will be taking over more of your life… and that this will be an observable change in your life… there is no “other gospel” here simply a guy who is taking seriously the concept of Christ’s call to “die to self”.
He is not preaching to people outside of the church who have never heard the gospel, he is preaching to those who have a nominal commitment to church and yet are willingly and deliberately living in sin and loving it, laughing at it and looking forward to doing it again. And I will repeat that you cannot claim Christ and willingly love your life of sin, (Rom 12:9; 1Jn 1:5-6, 2:15-16; 1 Pet 2:16). This is NOT works, a works gospel says you must do the works to be saved, the reality is that once we are saved, Rom 6 says that we have died to our old self and that we have been risen to walk in the newness of life and not return to our sin, therefore we will and should be producing Christlike fruit. Obviously this does not happen instantaneously but it should be happening even if it is slow.
The question that this guy is addressing is: can you claim Christ and continually, deliberately and lovingly walk in the darkness of sin? The answer to this question is actually a core issue of the gospel….
i just don’t think this guy is an evangelist
…
Dan Harding
Mark, perhaps i should have stated it a little more kindly – i think he has made an error in the way he has stated the Gospel (i.e. in the bit where he said that what you don’t do can keep you out of heaven). Does that qualify as a gospel of works? I think probably not – there are plenty of Arminians who believe that and we don’t call the whole Methodist/Wesleyan/Nazarene/General Baptist wing of the Church “a different gospel”.